The United Police States of America

[Jarlaxle]

Here’s a great story from the annals of American policing. Make sure you read in full before commenting, or else you might say something foolish.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ident.html

Cop should hang. Victim should get at least half a billion in punitive damages.

[Jarlaxle]

I read it. The cop was stupid. Obviously he realized the danger of fire (shouting for the pump to be turned off) and yet he still sent the electric sparkles into the fuel-laden air, burning both the motorcycle guy and himself terribly in the process. Excessively stupid. But what (other than that) is the point? That he deliberately incinerated both parties in some display of macho me-ism?

Perhaps some over-aggression is the point. Why fire the taser at all? The story wasn't very clear on the alternatives altho' we can make our own should-a-bins. I stick with "really dumb" until shown otherwise.

He wanted to torture the guy.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Per Meade:

Perhaps you mean, "Koffinas' taser didn't start the fire but it was a distinctly possible outcome of such carelessness". So he should be punished for what didn't happen but might have happened if he'd done it.

People are punished for driving drunk all the time even if they cause no accident. Of course if they do actually maim or kill someone the punishment is harsher, but the DUI laws are all about preventing what might happen.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Per Meade:

Perhaps you mean, "Koffinas' taser didn't start the fire but it was a distinctly possible outcome of such carelessness". So he should be punished for what didn't happen but might have happened if he'd done it.

People are punished for driving drunk all the time even if they cause no accident. Of course if they do actually maim or kill someone the punishment is harsher, but the DUI laws are all about preventing what might happen.

I don't think you really understood the point. But . . .

For your analogy to be valid, driving a vehicle while intoxicated would have to be "not-a-crime" in itself. But it is a crime. So people are punished for that, not for "might have had an accident" which AFAIK is not a crime. See the difference?

Now it's possible that it should be illegal for a policeperson to use a taser. When it is, then the use will be the crime, whether or not someone is immolated. Though if that also happens, then there's laws about not causing injury, whether by stupidity or on purpose (your sentences may vary).

[Econoline]

I would think that, if it isn't already illegal it certainly SHOULD be illegal to use a taser in a dangerous or irresponsible manner, or in a situation where such use has a high probability of causing a lot of "collateral damage". And firing a taser in a gas station, at a running gas pump, surrounded by explosive gasoline vapors would be a textbook example of "dangerous", "irresponsible", and "high probability of collateral damage". (The next example that comes to mind would be firing a taser into a crowd of people in a busy public space.)

And despite the horrifying video and the unbelievable stupidity of the situation, this may the most frightening sentence in the whole story:

In the wake of the fire, [Sheriff] López said at a town hall that he was not considering changing the tactics his force uses for similar future arrests.

[BoSoxGal]

I haven’t resurrected this thread in a while because it’s so depressing. Especially after that long moment in 2020 when George Floyd’s murder woke a sleeping giant and the whole country protested police brutality and it seemed like maybe things would change. Ha!

Last week a Massachusetts State Police recruit was killed in a training exercise at the academy, just weeks short of completing his course and fulfilling his lifelong dream to be a trooper. He had previously been working as a victim advocate in the Worcester district attorney’s office and was so beloved that the grieving DA and his staff announced today that they won’t handle the investigation into his death (the academy is in the same county) but will instead hand it off to an unbiased entity TBA.

He was a person of color, who knows his exact ethnicity (Delgado-Garcia is his last name) to me it isn’t important but he was brown and the MSP is 89% white with a very recent history (2017) of being investigated for racial bias within the ranks and people online are already saying they were trying to make him quit. Whether or not that’s true, there is little respect for or faith in the MSP among average Massachusetts residents these days given many recent scandals.

The training exercise was in a boxing ring, MSP officials are saying he was knocked out and aid was rendered, his family is saying his teeth were all broken and his neck and skull fractured. The commandant swore him in on his hospital deathbed so he could die a trooper. End of watch, before watch was ever begun.

They say it is on video. How hard could it be to investigate?

I’ve been trying for days to imagine a legit situation wherein this could have happened. At very least they are hiring and giving free rein to highly incompetent instructors. At very least.

I was shocked to learn that the MSP is 89% white. Massachusetts is a very diverse state, only 60% white. I was similarly shocked to learn a few months ago that 90% of Massachusetts public school teachers are white. WTAF? Apparently Massachusetts is still a pretty racist place.

[Bicycle Bill]

I was shocked to learn that the MSP is 89% white. Massachusetts is a very diverse state, only 60% white. I was similarly shocked to learn a few months ago that 90% of Massachusetts public school teachers are white. WTAF? Apparently Massachusetts is still a pretty racist place.

I know someone is going to call me 'racist' for this — and I don't care any more.   It's not racist to speak the truth, no matter how harsh it may be.  But could there possibly be as simple an explanation as it being the case that a large proportion of non-white people cannot pass the various background checks of their police records, or have insufficient educational qualifications, or cannot pass a simple drug usage test?

I know you use weed, BSG — you've never made any attempt to deny it, and I'm sure a lot of other people on this board do as well, or they're probably chomping down on gummies like they were M&Ms.   If any of YOU were seeking employment today, would any of YOU be able to get an "all clear" on a saliva or piss test?

-"BB"-

[Jarlaxle]

I haven’t resurrected this thread in a while because it’s so depressing. Especially after that long moment in 2020 when George Floyd’s murder woke a sleeping giant and the whole country protested police brutality and it seemed like maybe things would change. Ha!

Last week a Massachusetts State Police recruit was killed in a training exercise at the academy, just weeks short of completing his course and fulfilling his lifelong dream to be a trooper. He had previously been working as a victim advocate in the Worcester district attorney’s office and was so beloved that the grieving DA and his staff announced today that they won’t handle the investigation into his death (the academy is in the same county) but will instead hand it off to an unbiased entity TBA.

He was a person of color, who knows his exact ethnicity (Delgado-Garcia is his last name) to me it isn’t important but he was brown and the MSP is 89% white with a very recent history (2017) of being investigated for racial bias within the ranks and people online are already saying they were trying to make him quit. Whether or not that’s true, there is little respect for or faith in the MSP among average Massachusetts residents these days given many recent scandals.

The training exercise was in a boxing ring, MSP officials are saying he was knocked out and aid was rendered, his family is saying his teeth were all broken and his neck and skull fractured. The commandant swore him in on his hospital deathbed so he could die a trooper. End of watch, before watch was ever begun.

They say it is on video. How hard could it be to investigate?

I’ve been trying for days to imagine a legit situation wherein this could have happened. At very least they are hiring and giving free rein to highly incompetent instructors. At very least.

I was shocked to learn that the MSP is 89% white. Massachusetts is a very diverse state, only 60% white. I was similarly shocked to learn a few months ago that 90% of Massachusetts public school teachers are white. WTAF? Apparently Massachusetts is still a pretty racist place.

This isn't the only death at the academy recently. The MSP has been rotten basically forever.

Not just them-the Karen Read trial would be a farce if it wasn't a travesty.

[BoSoxGal]

I haven’t resurrected this thread in a while because it’s so depressing. Especially after that long moment in 2020 when George Floyd’s murder woke a sleeping giant and the whole country protested police brutality and it seemed like maybe things would change. Ha!

Last week a Massachusetts State Police recruit was killed in a training exercise at the academy, just weeks short of completing his course and fulfilling his lifelong dream to be a trooper. He had previously been working as a victim advocate in the Worcester district attorney’s office and was so beloved that the grieving DA and his staff announced today that they won’t handle the investigation into his death (the academy is in the same county) but will instead hand it off to an unbiased entity TBA.

He was a person of color, who knows his exact ethnicity (Delgado-Garcia is his last name) to me it isn’t important but he was brown and the MSP is 89% white with a very recent history (2017) of being investigated for racial bias within the ranks and people online are already saying they were trying to make him quit. Whether or not that’s true, there is little respect for or faith in the MSP among average Massachusetts residents these days given many recent scandals.

The training exercise was in a boxing ring, MSP officials are saying he was knocked out and aid was rendered, his family is saying his teeth were all broken and his neck and skull fractured. The commandant swore him in on his hospital deathbed so he could die a trooper. End of watch, before watch was ever begun.

They say it is on video. How hard could it be to investigate?

I’ve been trying for days to imagine a legit situation wherein this could have happened. At very least they are hiring and giving free rein to highly incompetent instructors. At very least.

I was shocked to learn that the MSP is 89% white. Massachusetts is a very diverse state, only 60% white. I was similarly shocked to learn a few months ago that 90% of Massachusetts public school teachers are white. WTAF? Apparently Massachusetts is still a pretty racist place.

This isn't the only death at the academy recently. The MSP has been rotten basically forever.

Not just them-the Karen Read trial would be a farce if it wasn't a travesty.

The biggest travesty of the Karen Read case is that that drunk driving c*** is guilty as sin and just like Trump, she's hoodwinked thousands of gullible idiots who want so bad to hate cops (and yes, the cops made plenty of stupid mistakes in handling the case) that they will believe whatever BS she bleats at them from the courthouse steps. Her confession is right there on national TV, for anyone discerning enough to watch and see it. I hope at a minimum she is bankrupted for the rest of her miserable ugly narcissistic life by John O'Keefe's family and others who have standing to bring legal actions against her. Preferably she will spend the next 20 years at MCI Framingham whinging about her poor self who wasn't getting enough attention from the boyfriend with adopted kids who she chose and then complained about endlessly including to other men she cheated on him with. She's disgusting, a real piece of shit who gives decent women a bad name.

[Burning Petard]

Training? This activity near the end of the training involved hitting him in the head with enough force to break teeth and bones in his neck. Just what was the product of this training exercise supposed to be? How was this experience expected to make him a better cop?

snailgate

[Jarlaxle]

I haven’t resurrected this thread in a while because it’s so depressing. Especially after that long moment in 2020 when George Floyd’s murder woke a sleeping giant and the whole country protested police brutality and it seemed like maybe things would change. Ha!

Last week a Massachusetts State Police recruit was killed in a training exercise at the academy, just weeks short of completing his course and fulfilling his lifelong dream to be a trooper. He had previously been working as a victim advocate in the Worcester district attorney’s office and was so beloved that the grieving DA and his staff announced today that they won’t handle the investigation into his death (the academy is in the same county) but will instead hand it off to an unbiased entity TBA.

He was a person of color, who knows his exact ethnicity (Delgado-Garcia is his last name) to me it isn’t important but he was brown and the MSP is 89% white with a very recent history (2017) of being investigated for racial bias within the ranks and people online are already saying they were trying to make him quit. Whether or not that’s true, there is little respect for or faith in the MSP among average Massachusetts residents these days given many recent scandals.

The training exercise was in a boxing ring, MSP officials are saying he was knocked out and aid was rendered, his family is saying his teeth were all broken and his neck and skull fractured. The commandant swore him in on his hospital deathbed so he could die a trooper. End of watch, before watch was ever begun.

They say it is on video. How hard could it be to investigate?

I’ve been trying for days to imagine a legit situation wherein this could have happened. At very least they are hiring and giving free rein to highly incompetent instructors. At very least.

I was shocked to learn that the MSP is 89% white. Massachusetts is a very diverse state, only 60% white. I was similarly shocked to learn a few months ago that 90% of Massachusetts public school teachers are white. WTAF? Apparently Massachusetts is still a pretty racist place.

This isn't the only death at the academy recently. The MSP has been rotten basically forever.

Not just them-the Karen Read trial would be a farce if it wasn't a travesty.

The biggest travesty of the Karen Read case is that that drunk driving c*** is guilty as sin and just like Trump, she's hoodwinked thousands of gullible idiots who want so bad to hate cops (and yes, the cops made plenty of stupid mistakes in handling the case) that they will believe whatever BS she bleats at them from the courthouse steps. Her confession is right there on national TV, for anyone discerning enough to watch and see it. I hope at a minimum she is bankrupted for the rest of her miserable ugly narcissistic life by John O'Keefe's family and others who have standing to bring legal actions against her. Preferably she will spend the next 20 years at MCI Framingham whinging about her poor self who wasn't getting enough attention from the boyfriend with adopted kids who she chose and then complained about endlessly including to other men she cheated on him with. She's disgusting, a real piece of shit who gives decent women a bad name.

Either you know nothing of the case of you're simply making things up.

[BoSoxGal]

This isn't the only death at the academy recently. The MSP has been rotten basically forever.

Not just them-the Karen Read trial would be a farce if it wasn't a travesty.

The biggest travesty of the Karen Read case is that that drunk driving c*** is guilty as sin and just like Trump, she's hoodwinked thousands of gullible idiots who want so bad to hate cops (and yes, the cops made plenty of stupid mistakes in handling the case) that they will believe whatever BS she bleats at them from the courthouse steps. Her confession is right there on national TV, for anyone discerning enough to watch and see it. I hope at a minimum she is bankrupted for the rest of her miserable ugly narcissistic life by John O'Keefe's family and others who have standing to bring legal actions against her. Preferably she will spend the next 20 years at MCI Framingham whinging about her poor self who wasn't getting enough attention from the boyfriend with adopted kids who she chose and then complained about endlessly including to other men she cheated on him with. She's disgusting, a real piece of shit who gives decent women a bad name.

Either you know nothing of the case of you're simply making things up.

I know everything about the Karen Read case. I read the first articles about it in the Boston Globe and have followed it closely since. I watched EVERY SINGLE MINUTE of the pre trial motions hearings and the trial. EVERY SINGLE MINUTE.

Which is why I, like the majority of the jury if you believe the word on the street, believe her to be guilty of DUI manslaughter. If the Norfolk County ADA had gotten around to explaining the criteria for 2nd degree murder under Massachusetts law to the jury either in opening or closing statements, the majority of the jury very likely would have believed her to be guilty of 2nd degree murder for her horrifically reckless acts that night which resulted in John O'Keefe's death.

I am entirely unsurprised that you are on the Free Karen Read bandwagon. Have you attended at least one stand up for Karen? Do you wear the pink gear? Do you secretly dream of her sucking you off when it's only poor Liz sucking you off?

The cult around this vile, amoral woman is truly sickening. It is very unsurprising to me that so many of the FKR crowd are also MAGA - I know this because I bothered to spend (too much) time lurking in the FKR Facebook pages and elsewhere. But I do draw the line at reading the vile rantings of her fuck buddy Turtleboy. I look forward to seeing both of them prosecuted for witness tampering/intimidation. I look forward to seeing both of them bankrupted as well. It's pathetic that so many losers are sending them money to conduct their campaign of lying and stoking community divisiveness and ruining the lives of innocent people who just happened to be friends or acquaintances of John O'Keefe.

She's a fucking DRUNK DRIVER who killed her boyfriend after screaming at him ALL DAY LONG like a borderline personality on steroids. She consumed 9 shots in 1.5 hours and got behind the wheel. Still over a .08 when tested for BAC at the hospital 8+ hours later. She's a sick excuse for a grown ass woman. I'm revolted that you both believe and support her.

[BoSoxGal]

PS - there is NOTHING you can say to change my mind on this subject, and nothing you have to say on the subject of that piece of shit human being that is worth taking up space in this forum. Please refrain from further hijacking this thread with anymore defense of Karen KILLER Read. There are plenty of places online you can spew that vomit to people who give a shit.

[BoSoxGal]

Training? This activity near the end of the training involved hitting him in the head with enough force to break teeth and bones in his neck. Just what was the product of this training exercise supposed to be? How was this experience expected to make him a better cop?

snailgate

Exactly. As I commented on Boston.com, what was the purpose of this training - to teach MSP troopers how to kill Massachusetts residents and/or visitors to our commonwealth with their bare hands???

My suspicion is at very least macho cop mentality in the MSP trainer gone berserk, and the rest of the recruits and/or other trainers just stood there like sheep and did nothing to intervene - as happens so often when cops go berserk in the field.

[Big RR]

I recall when I had army training that we had similar training using pugil sticks, during which we were put in a ring and pummeled each other with the sticks (google it and you can see a photo). It was supposed to "toughen" you up, and the general rule was t pair up with someone you couldn't stand so you would exhibit the "appropriate" aggression. No one was seriously injured when I did it, but i heard stories of teeth knocked loose and broken bones (the only protective equipment were the boxing headgear) when the instructors did not try to protect the combatants (like everyone else, there were good and bad ones). Also, while not entirely sanctioned by the army, there was a policy to get guys who had beefs into the ring to slug it out, using boxing gloves and headgear--you've probably seen this in movies. This could have been done for either of those reasons, but I wouldn't be surprised if the state police wanted to get "tough" officers (FWIW, as I recall, the women did this same training , but only against other women), but I wouldn't discount racism or even sadism being the cause.

I would think you probably need cops who can handle themselves in a fist fight, but you also need instructors to call it off when it gets brutal.

[Jarlaxle]

PS - there is NOTHING you can say to change my mind on this subject, and nothing you have to say on the subject of that piece of shit human being that is worth taking up space in this forum. Please refrain from further hijacking this thread with anymore defense of Karen KILLER Read. There are plenty of places online you can spew that vomit to people who give a shit.

So, you care nothing about facts. You simply want a witch-burning.

[BoSoxGal]

On the foes list, asshole. You were quick, but I saw the previous post before you deleted it.

[Jarlaxle]

On the foes list, asshole. You were quick, but I saw the previous post before you deleted it.

You're now in scooter territory. Hope you keel over soon.

[Burning Petard]

Remember the rules of this site: above all argue.

Scooter territory is not a bad place to be.

snailgate

[Jarlaxle]

Libelous accusations are beyond "arguing".

I'm done. Have a nice life.