Car advice, please!

[BoSoxGal]

So it turns out that I'm going to be buying my first brand new car ever in the next few weeks.

(Ruby ended up being a screw job, so I have to ditch her ASAP before she bankrupts me - and I've decided I'm tired of older vehicles and want something very reliable that I won't have to put a big chunk of change into for at least 50k miles, and something that comes with warranties.)

I've been shopping online for days and it turns out that at least where I live, there is negligible difference in the prices for brand new v. slightly used (like a lease trade-in, something ~30k miles) and new cars have better incentive interest rates.

So these are the ones I'm interested in, and I would very much appreciate if anyone has any personal or family experience with these models they would share with me. (I decided to go with a compact car because it's just Riley and me 98% of the time, we don't carry much cargo beyond modest grocery store hauls and my vacuum, and the only human passenger I'm likely to have is a kid who has maxed her growth and is barely 5 feet tall. I am 5'2" and have always felt quite comfortable in compact cars I've rented over the years while traveling.)


The models:

Honda Civic hatchback

Toyota Corolla hatchback (I'm inclined toward Toyota because of my 18 year experience with Reva, but my research shows that Honda and Mazda are relatively comparable reliability wise, and have some nicer features than the Corolla.)

Mazda 3 hatchback

Subaru Impreza (I'm a little less enthusiastic about this one because it is AWD which I know are more expensive to maintain/repair, and less fuel efficient. Also I'm not sure about Subaru reliability?)

Thanks in advance for any inputs/suggestions, especially from the motorheads on the board, but all are welcome!

[ex-khobar Andy]

I have a Mazda 3 hatchback which I don't use and I plan to give it to my local NPR at some point unless I discover some friend who wants it.

It's a 2008 and I bought it in 2012 with 3,000 miles on it. I paid something like $15,000 for it and let the prior owner take the first $4000 depreciation. 2.3 L engine, never let me down, I used it for about 2 years of 700 miles a week of highway driving and then a more sober schedule. (I was living and working during the week in Northern Indiana and going home to Louisville on weekends where my wife and daughter lived.)

It never let me down. It is practically worthless at the moment because it needs a new battery, new AC compressor, and a leather seat repair which would have cost about $100 if I had got it done at the first sign of a seam coming undone but, because I procrastinated, would probably cost $500 or more now - and that comes to close to the book value. But a great car: in 180,000 miles it has cost me oil changes and tires and a brake job; and when I wanted a newer car a couple of years ago I seriously looked at Mazda 3 hatchbacks. IIRC they stopped making them for a while or maybe lightly used ones were just not available, don't recall.

New cars have all sort of safety gadgets which we older drivers (I'm talking about me, BSG not you) appreciate such as blind spot indicators, auto braking, lane shift warnings, back up camera etc.

I also seriously looked at the new Acura Integra which I loved (I had one of the first model when it came out) and that is basically a tarted up $$$ Civic. I had many Civics during my road warrior days when I would just rent at the airport and always liked them - if the rental agencies go for them, they have done their homework.

[datsunaholic]

I can't say with much reliability because it's based on my towing cars rather than driving them, but have you looked at the Corolla Cross? Seems to be comparable in price to the Corolla hatchback but seems a bit roomier for Riley. I'm not seeing the issues with Toyota CVTs that other brands are having but it's still rather immature technology. The Cross and the regular Corolla both use the same drivetrain, so it's the same kinda buzzy and not very powerful setup on the base models. The biggest issues I see with modern (2020 and newer) Toyotas is that people seem to forget to actually turn them off (they leave them in accessory mode), so they come back to a dead battery.



Subaru maintenance is an issue. The ones with CVTs are still having transmission issues (not as bad as Nissan and Ford on that front, but still) due to the recommended maintenance intervals being way too long. I also don't trust them as a short-trip vehicle (again, the CVT, but also Subaru's notorious problems with head gasket failures due to uneven heating- which is exacerbated by short trips.). I also see Subaru owners forgetting to power them off when parked and come back to dead batteries. Why it's only Subarus and Toyotas I see this I don't know. Might be with how the pushbutton start system is set up on these.

Hondas are still a good choice... I do see issues with the Hybrid ones just up and dying n the driveway, and they're a pain in the rear to tow due to the need to have the engine running to put it n neutral. The non-hybrids don't have that issue. They have better features at the price point than Toyota because Toyotas still have that Toyota markup.

The biggest issue I see with Mazdas is that they are less popular so I don't see many. Reliability is "in between" of the Japanese brands. Honda and Toyota at the top. Mazda in the middle, Nissan and Subaru and the bottom for the Japanese brands (I don't list Mitsubishi because they are so rare I almost never see them).

[Joe Guy]

I would buy the Corolla Hatchback. In fact, it's likely to be the next car I will buy. The Civic is probably good too but not my first choice.

[BoSoxGal]

New cars have all sort of safety gadgets which we older drivers (I'm talking about me, BSG not you) appreciate such as blind spot indicators, auto braking, lane shift warnings, back up camera etc.

I consider myself an older driver - my reflexes are still pretty good, but my eyes aren't the same at night even with corrective lenses. Over the months that I have been borrowing my cousin's last two cars - a Chevy SUV (Traverse?) and now a Highlander, I have really enjoyed the backup mirrors and alarm. I haven't ever experienced any of the other stuff because I never had a lane drift or whatever, but I do think they're good to have especially in the area I live where I am surrounded by distracted drivers. And I admit some of the other tech is pretty neat - heated seats in a compact car! Love it!

Thanks for the share on your Mazda experience, it squares with my own experience with a Mazda 626 I had in the late 90s to early 2000s which took a lot of miles and served me well with few repairs. I rented a Mazda 3 hatchback when I travelled to DC and the DelMarVa in 2013 for a prosecutor's training which I expanded to a visit to see Chincoteague and Assateague and the ponies and then down to Sandbridge to see an old high school teacher. Drove over that crazy long Chesapeake Bay Bridge in that little car on a windy day. Got stuck in the most awful bumper to bumper trying to get to Dulles for my flight home. The whole trip I kept thinking, this is a great little car.

I'm test driving all the models Saturday - but I might skip the Subaru altogether.

The CVT on the Toyota does give me a little hesitation, but Toyota has such a reputation for reliability that I want to think they got it right.

And I'll admit to being so shallow that the fact that the Civic and Mazda 3 come with a sun/moonroof option is under careful consideration. Toyota, give us roses not just bread!

[Bicycle Bill]

For what it's worth my fiancée has a 2016 (?) Ford C-Max hybrid hatchback, which seems to do well for the two of us (and the ride-along fur-baby, Bandit).   I'm a big guy (5'9" and pushing towards 300 pounds since I got old and stopped riding the bike so much) and I can fit in the driver's seat comfortably, without being scrunched up against the wheel or with the top of my noggin scraping the headliner.   We used it earlier this summer for a four-day road trip, and it drove and rode well (and economically), we were both comfortable inside, and it's changed my thinking about hybrids in general.

 So I'd recommend not being in such a hurry to dismiss hybrids out-of-hand, or to think that whatever you buy has to be a mid-sized crossover or SUV — like your late lamented RAV-4 — in order to give you sufficient roominess.

And incidentally, she also calls HER car — which is a sort of deep burgundy red metallic — 'Ruby'.

-"BB"-

[Burning Petard]

My transport depends on a six year old Toyota Corolla made in Canada during the week between Christmas and New Years. It has the CVT. It sat unsold on one New Jersey dealer's lot from the day it left Canada until the day in July when dealer in Delaware acquired it. I bought it in August.

In spite of those warning signs, the car has been completely without trouble for me. It marked the end of about a 40 year period for me and my wife of almost exclusively driving Fords. I finally gave up on Fords after 180K in a Focus. After I trashed it I did my homework and found that VW's, and all the American brands had lousy reliability for their new cars. At that time Toyotas sold for slightly more than similar Hondas, and the 'word on the street' was that Honda reliability was also beginning to decline. I like the Mazda's. Yet, I don't see many old one's on the street. Subaru is just a bit different, all of them.
They sell for a higher price, but that seems to be the marketplace declaring that they are worth more. I still hear stories now about mechanics who are not familiar with the Sube, pulling the drain plug for the tranny, rather than the oil sump plug, then pouring in new oil for an.oil change. Thereby doing heavy damage to both engine and transmission. However, if you can get or do knowledgeable maintenance, they seem to thrive on long use. Consumers Reports has recommended the Forester as the best car for older drivers, consistently for many years.

Ford still has problems with overheating transmissions and differentials. True,all the new cars have lots of really neat bells and whistles. I love the back-up camera. Now it is standard on everything. I was very pleasantly surprised about how much better my new Toyota lites up the road at night. But some of that gadgetry can be very frustrating to trouble shoot. My 2018 car has lots of safety features, one is a warning buzzer, a red icon on the dash, and a twitch of the steering wheel, all if I get too close to the edge of my lane. At about 40K, the steering wheel stopped twitching, even though the other two indicators still happen. Not worth the cost to me to fix it. Not really sure what the value of the tire pressure warning system is really. I still keep my own gauge and check the tire pressure regularly. All the various automatic braking and warning cameras and radar systems seem great, but still you need to depend on your own eyeballs and the jellyware between your ears.

I know about the trade-offs of depreciation and re-sale value. I finally decided on buying new, and keeping it till it had almost no resale value. My Daughter goes the other way and prefers buying something at least 10 years old and keeping it running as long as she can still get parts. She learns about body welds that let go just from metal fatigue and vibration over the years producing interior puddles when it rains. and rubber parts that fall apart just from age as well as the expected body rust and paint bubbles.

I dream about owning a Porsche, but the maintenance on those is insane.

snailgate.

[Crackpot]

Subarus generally have a good reputation. My wife has had two Outbacks and loved them both and I may be buying a Forrester due to the untimely demise of my Nissan. Generally speaking for a standard ICE the boxter engine is both sturdy and fuel efficent. My wife's current outback has nearly 160K on it and is still running well outside of the fact that things that wear over time are wearing and we had to replace most of the front suspension a year or so back and had some minor wear related engine problems this year (sensors and check valves)

I'm a little soured on domestics mostly because after 30 years of watching the sausage being made has really soured me on GM (they're not bad really but bad things that happen in the process tend to stick with you even though they may have been fixed) Chrysler is well Chrysler and Ford while generally pretty decent just hasn't done anything for me recently. Same with Toyota and Honda even though they also have good reputations.

My biggest disappointment with Subaru at the moment is that they currently don't offer any hybrid vehicles (Something that wanted in my next vehicle)

I would be interested in Mazda myself but the nearest dealership is on the west side and there is no way I'm dealing with that traffic any time there is an issue that requires the dealer. (like the free maintenance that many dealers offer)

Oh and I don't know how much winter driving you do but AWD is really nice when you have to drive in areas where plowing isn't immediate. (but FWD is good for most urban Suburban driving.

[BoSoxGal]

What say you about service plans and GAP coverage? And protective coating? And mud guards?

I did choose service coverage insurance when I bought Reva 18 years ago - I know it added a chunk to my loan, but to be honest when she needed a new water pump and timing belt fairly early into my ownership of her and when I was struggling financially, it was nice to have that repair covered in total by the service plan.

I think I've found the car I want, going to see it tomorrow and see if the finances work out.

It doesn't have mudguards and I'm thinking I should add them? There is also an option to have protective coating - what say you? Given I live in New England and am likely to stay here, it seems maybe sensible? I've decided on the Mazda 3.

[Crackpot]

To all but the mud flaps it depends on your finances and risk aversion. Mud flaps are a yes as long at they are original equipment (Official manufacturer parts) so there is no damage done to the wheel wells for aftermarket attachments.

One thing that is an absolute must is if the car has some advanced driving system that requires cameras mounted behind the windshield (ex. Subaru eyesight) get the additional windshield protection as replacing the windshield requires recalibrating the cameras/sensors and that is expensive. If you replace one windshield it will more than pay for itself. (My wife had replaced two windshields on each of her Outback’s for no additional cost.

[Crackpot]

Oh GAP coverage is a good idea especially if you can’t afford a major loss and need buy new car at the same time. My wife’s first Outback was totaled a year and a half into the loan and that protected us from having to pay $7000+ at the same time we needed a new vehicle.

Which reminds me. Since I will be putting so much down on my (possible) new car I should be sure to wave Gap.

[BoSoxGal]

I have a Mazda 3 hatchback which I don't use and I plan to give it to my local NPR at some point unless I discover some friend who wants it.

It's a 2008 and I bought it in 2012 with 3,000 miles on it. I paid something like $15,000 for it and let the prior owner take the first $4000 depreciation. 2.3 L engine, never let me down, I used it for about 2 years of 700 miles a week of highway driving and then a more sober schedule. (I was living and working during the week in Northern Indiana and going home to Louisville on weekends where my wife and daughter lived.)

It never let me down. It is practically worthless at the moment because it needs a new battery, new AC compressor, and a leather seat repair which would have cost about $100 if I had got it done at the first sign of a seam coming undone but, because I procrastinated, would probably cost $500 or more now - and that comes to close to the book value. But a great car: in 180,000 miles it has cost me oil changes and tires and a brake job; and when I wanted a newer car a couple of years ago I seriously looked at Mazda 3 hatchbacks. IIRC they stopped making them for a while or maybe lightly used ones were just not available, don't recall.

New cars have all sort of safety gadgets which we older drivers (I'm talking about me, BSG not you) appreciate such as blind spot indicators, auto braking, lane shift warnings, back up camera etc.

I also seriously looked at the new Acura Integra which I loved (I had one of the first model when it came out) and that is basically a tarted up $$$ Civic. I had many Civics during my road warrior days when I would just rent at the airport and always liked them - if the rental agencies go for them, they have done their homework.

Is your Mazda 3 an automatic or manual transmission?

I've found one available near me that is really lovely, but just realized in the description that it is a manual 6 speed. I had that in my 626 and never had an issue with the clutch or transmission in 235k miles before I traded it in for Reva who had an automatic. I kind of like the idea of reverting to a manual because I know they typically cost less to fix and last longer, but just curious about your transmission type and how it has held up.

[ex-khobar Andy]

My Mazda 3 is an automatic.

[datsunaholic]

My biggest disappointment with Subaru at the moment is that they currently don't offer any hybrid vehicles (Something that wanted in my next vehicle)

Really? Because I just dropped a Subaru off at the dealer and parked it next to a Crosstrek Hybrid.

[Crackpot]

They had a couple but none currently (tho they do have a full electric now)

[Joe Guy]

Google says there will be a Suburu Forester Hybrid in 2025.

[Crackpot]

It will be a mid model year if it materializes at all.

[Big RR]

CP--have you looked into hybrids much; my understanding is that some get much better mileage than the base (non hybrid) model, others not so much. I was recently on vacation in California, and ended up renting (not what I booked) a Jeep Grand Cherokee plug in hybrid. I got around 23 and change mpg, and this did not appear to change much whether i charged it overnight at the hotel (many offer free charging) or not. When I checked online, the literature said the plug in hybrid should get 24, the gas engine, 22.5. I imagine the mechanics of a plug in hybrid are fairly complex and need more maintenance/repair, making the savings minimal unless you drive a lot (I'm guessing the Jeep batteries don't hold all that much of a charge). I like the idea of hybrids, but I wonder how many really make that much of a difference in gas mileage.

[Crackpot]

There are different types of hybrid systems some work independently and some work together with the ICE. Generally the systems that work together give you the “better” mileage result unless you are running primarily off of charge only. Most “plug-in” Hybrid systems operate independently of the ICE so you are either running electric (no gas being used at all) or all ICE where you are recouping a little bit MPG out of extra charge being generated by breaking and other energy recovery systems. The other type have the two systems working together almost constantly this allows the vehicle to use electric to aid in acceleration and performance when needed and along the ICE to charge the batteries when demand is low. The problem there is using bout at the same time comes with a loss of efficiency (I hear the electric portion generally only operates at 75% in this setup) but allows the two to work together to give performance above what would be given alone.

So basically it works like this: (numbers pulled out of my ass for illustration purposes)
Plug in hybrid
Running gas (200 ICE Hp 20 mpg)
Running electric (200 electric Hp 90+ converted MPG)

Combined hybrid
200 hp gas engine 200hp electric motor

350 combined HP with 35-40 mpg

Both have thier pros and cons depending on distance driven daily and availability of charging and performance desired

[Crackpot]

Note: I’m new to this stuff as well and some of my info may be inaccurate/incorrect, but, is accurate to the best of my understanding.